Tactise Blog
'From Inside — Out': How a Leader Changes the Space
Dmitry Kozlov — founder of the company and author of the bestseller The Tao of Industrial Safety — a book that blends what seems incompatible: a practical handbook for building a safety culture at complex industrial sites and engaging storytelling. Dmitry is currently working on a new book for leaders, The Power of the Norm, which explores the mechanisms of deep change in companies and in the lives of their leaders. In this interview we discuss modern leadership, why today’s CEOs need not only digital transformation but personal evolution as well, how creativity and mindfulness inform strategic decisions, and why large-scale change always starts with meanings rather than instructions.
Dmitry Kozlov, a founder ant the CEO о Tactise International
This interview highlights author's ideas on how to change mindsets and shape the future. Here we talk with Dmitry not just about his book, but about those who turn knowledge into a driving force for change.
— Dmitry, how do you combine work in industrial safety with spiritual practices and creativity?
Safety culture is, first and foremost, everyday behavior. At first glance, an industrial site is only conveyors and “machines,” but behind all that are people with different experiences and worldviews. Until you understand how they see the world and what exactly needs to be “highlighted” for them, meaningful change is impossible. This requires sensitivity — the ability to feel at what stage of life someone is, or what level of complexity they are at, and to shine that light so things become better, clearer, and safer. Such sensitivity appears when you yourself regularly reflect on your path — what helped you shift, change, and feel supported.
This is where creativity comes in: creating a multidimensional space — organizational, meaningful, cultural, intellectual — that tempts people to accept a new norm.
You can’t force someone into a new norm; that only works short-term. If you say, “Do daily exercises,” under strict control a person may comply, but as soon as the control relaxes they’ll happily revert: “Thank goodness, I don’t have to do it.”
This is where creativity comes in: creating a multidimensional space — organizational, meaningful, cultural, intellectual — that tempts people to accept a new norm.
You can’t force someone into a new norm; that only works short-term. If you say, “Do daily exercises,” under strict control a person may comply, but as soon as the control relaxes they’ll happily revert: “Thank goodness, I don’t have to do it.”
The task of change agents is to find that meaning, action, artifact, device, or ritual that captures people and makes them want to do the “exercises” every day themselves.
It’s a mistake to think safety reduces to the formula “follow the rules.” Safety is a mindset.
Creativity is about selecting keys to change that mindset for each person and for each project. We are keepers, masters of keys. We know what kinds exist and how to choose, combine, add, and apply them in the right sequence and rhythm.
Let me add one more thing about the uniqueness of projects. There are no universal keys: “you have to turn and fine-tune them each time, tailor them to every project.” There is not one “correct” set — there is a sensitive adaptation to the step at which the company or its culture stands.
Creativity is about selecting keys to change that mindset for each person and for each project. We are keepers, masters of keys. We know what kinds exist and how to choose, combine, add, and apply them in the right sequence and rhythm.
Let me add one more thing about the uniqueness of projects. There are no universal keys: “you have to turn and fine-tune them each time, tailor them to every project.” There is not one “correct” set — there is a sensitive adaptation to the step at which the company or its culture stands.
— What developed your sensitivity to yourself and others?
It’s not a single moment but a technique. In yoga there is emotional reflection: you meditate, feel an emotion, name it — the state changes, the emotion releases. Our body is a universal sensing instrument; it’s important to be able to “interpret the lights.” In freediving there is a body scan every 5–7 seconds during a dive. I learned this from Alexey Molchanov and brought it into everyday life: in negotiations I feel the tension rising — I scan my body, find the tension, relax it — the emotion subsides. Then you don’t “get on the horse of emotion” and ride it away.
This isn’t about control but about choosing your attitude toward a situation: say someone cuts you off in traffic and indignation rises — you notice it, acknowledge it, and choose what to do, which is often nothing.
The second aspect of sensitivity is inner impartiality. Another person has the right to feel any emotion. Sometimes we think we can demand of someone “don’t be angry or sad in front of me.” That’s wrong. It’s important to allow people to be as they are. And for yourself — to avoid “catching” someone else’s emotion, to observe it and, if necessary, make managerial decisions based on an understanding of what is actually happening with the person and what is causing their emotional state. This shifts interaction from reprimand to analysis and action.
This isn’t about control but about choosing your attitude toward a situation: say someone cuts you off in traffic and indignation rises — you notice it, acknowledge it, and choose what to do, which is often nothing.
The second aspect of sensitivity is inner impartiality. Another person has the right to feel any emotion. Sometimes we think we can demand of someone “don’t be angry or sad in front of me.” That’s wrong. It’s important to allow people to be as they are. And for yourself — to avoid “catching” someone else’s emotion, to observe it and, if necessary, make managerial decisions based on an understanding of what is actually happening with the person and what is causing their emotional state. This shifts interaction from reprimand to analysis and action.
— How does this way of thinking lead to business decisions?
To change, each of us must go through a big inner journey. But not everyone wants or is ready to go through it. Many people live by automatic reactions formed by their environment and processes. We tried to “distribute mindfulness” through dynamic risk assessment (editor’s note — a tool for awareness and building safe behavior based on risk assessment in Dmitry’s methodology). This sparks 5–10% of the “seekers.” The rest live in learned helplessness and either don’t want to or are afraid to change anything around them.
Over time we realized this: behavior patterns are inscribed by the environment and the “paths” that management creates — how a person learns, how they work, what they see and hear on the way to their shift. On a simple level you can feel it: you’re in a taxi and notice how an internal dialogue starts — music, radio talk, sounds — everything affects your stance.
That’s why designing “paths” matters. Today this is called the employee journey map: how a person arrives, receives their work order, how they are greeted, how they are trained and hand over their shift. Everything matters: from access control to briefing to the tools — every step either supports a safe choice or breaks it.
When you first visit a large enterprise, you often think: “how can people work in such a mine or eat in such a canteen?” you want to remake everything — make it beautiful and safe. But the amount of “unsolvable” problems is vast, and even solved issues are often “invisible”: you repaired a blast furnace, replaced rollers on conveyors — billions invested, yet from the outside nothing seems to have changed. That is why showing the process of change matters: the workforce must see that things are improving and that anyone can initiate and implement changes.
The key to involving everyone in improvements is transparency about what is happening, including data on the number of problems. And of course honesty. Starting to measure the number of issues and showing them openly is already a change. To “step on the scales” or “count how many pages you read,” you need a ritual.
Over time we realized this: behavior patterns are inscribed by the environment and the “paths” that management creates — how a person learns, how they work, what they see and hear on the way to their shift. On a simple level you can feel it: you’re in a taxi and notice how an internal dialogue starts — music, radio talk, sounds — everything affects your stance.
That’s why designing “paths” matters. Today this is called the employee journey map: how a person arrives, receives their work order, how they are greeted, how they are trained and hand over their shift. Everything matters: from access control to briefing to the tools — every step either supports a safe choice or breaks it.
When you first visit a large enterprise, you often think: “how can people work in such a mine or eat in such a canteen?” you want to remake everything — make it beautiful and safe. But the amount of “unsolvable” problems is vast, and even solved issues are often “invisible”: you repaired a blast furnace, replaced rollers on conveyors — billions invested, yet from the outside nothing seems to have changed. That is why showing the process of change matters: the workforce must see that things are improving and that anyone can initiate and implement changes.
The key to involving everyone in improvements is transparency about what is happening, including data on the number of problems. And of course honesty. Starting to measure the number of issues and showing them openly is already a change. To “step on the scales” or “count how many pages you read,” you need a ritual.
Example: if people want water but it takes twenty minutes to get to it or it tastes bad — put a water cooler on the shop floor and remove the discomfort. By consistently recording, prioritizing, and removing such discomforts you create a new norm. This is quite feasible. The attitude shifts from “it’s always been dark, noisy, and bad here” to “this should change; it shouldn’t be like that.”
In implementing changes and improvements in our own lives we always play two roles — the architect of life and the one who lives it. For the living self you can create an architecture of change — rituals and conditions, points and motivation. You can architecturally recreate your norm and habits: just as a corporation has a process architect, you can appoint an “architect of your life.” It may feel like a split personality at first, but over time you learn to use this transition constructively.
— How does The Power of the Norm continue the first book, The Tao of Industrial Safety?
When I started the business, I wanted to help companies solve efficiency issues while caring for people. Not the false “care” where leaders decide for everyone what they need, but co-creative building. When decisions are made together with the team, they deliver the best outcomes for both people and the business. For this, you must accept that a person in a company is not just a cog: they give the most precious thing — their time — and intuitively know what matters for the business.
In one of our early projects it became clear: talking about care is pointless if a culture devalues human life. When, as part of some technology, a person is chipping away at the vault of a mine where stones weighing several tonnes can fall, and this is considered “normal,” you cannot talk about safety through the lens of “value of life.” You have to approach it differently — through a culture of standards: if standards aren’t followed in safety, they aren’t followed anywhere, and efficiency is lost along with time.
The global safety situation is alarming: 2.8 million people die each year in work-related incidents and diseases. Every 15 seconds someone dies not in war but at work.
The first book debunked safety myths and exposed values and principles that are missing from management systems in many countries, which is why accidents happen. We also demonstrated ways to communicate these principles through accessible channels. What we also realized: the method of working with safety is the engineering of a cultural norm. “Culture” can be drawn as a scheme, measured, and designed. This became a great help to top executives and managers — many of whom are engineers by training. A blueprint with the fundamental scheme and linkages appeared.
When it started to work and show results, we realized that this is indeed the “engineering of cultural norms.” It became clear that there is an algorithm for changing a norm, and the word “culture” ceases to be a vague umbrella that everyone interprets differently.
The second book, The Power of the Norm, is about how the process of changing culture and norms — for your life, your team, and your company — can be constructed as a scheme. The need to “change” arises daily for each of us: some resist it, some change consciously and seek an algorithm that makes it joyful and effective. The new book expands on the first, with slightly less focus on workplace safety and production, and more on personal life.
In one of our early projects it became clear: talking about care is pointless if a culture devalues human life. When, as part of some technology, a person is chipping away at the vault of a mine where stones weighing several tonnes can fall, and this is considered “normal,” you cannot talk about safety through the lens of “value of life.” You have to approach it differently — through a culture of standards: if standards aren’t followed in safety, they aren’t followed anywhere, and efficiency is lost along with time.
The global safety situation is alarming: 2.8 million people die each year in work-related incidents and diseases. Every 15 seconds someone dies not in war but at work.
The first book debunked safety myths and exposed values and principles that are missing from management systems in many countries, which is why accidents happen. We also demonstrated ways to communicate these principles through accessible channels. What we also realized: the method of working with safety is the engineering of a cultural norm. “Culture” can be drawn as a scheme, measured, and designed. This became a great help to top executives and managers — many of whom are engineers by training. A blueprint with the fundamental scheme and linkages appeared.
When it started to work and show results, we realized that this is indeed the “engineering of cultural norms.” It became clear that there is an algorithm for changing a norm, and the word “culture” ceases to be a vague umbrella that everyone interprets differently.
The second book, The Power of the Norm, is about how the process of changing culture and norms — for your life, your team, and your company — can be constructed as a scheme. The need to “change” arises daily for each of us: some resist it, some change consciously and seek an algorithm that makes it joyful and effective. The new book expands on the first, with slightly less focus on workplace safety and production, and more on personal life.
— How does this algorithm work for a person — outside the corporation?
We “wear different hats”: here you are a manager, here a family person, here alone with yourself. In each role — the task is to create your own world inside the real one. Each of us wants life to be beautiful.
There are different schools and concepts: some say “what’s inside matters,” while social standards tell us “what’s outside matters — attributes like apartment, car, money, success.” But you can have lots of money and hate everything, or sit in a garden, pull weeds, and be fulfilled. The world shows that a synthesis of inner and outer matters. The choice and approach are individual. It’s important to find your authenticity and design your own world. For that you need to understand the algorithm — how to design your world: which emotions you want to experience, which conditions you create “for yourself” so they become your norm. How do I make my life in every sense a work of art I can look at and enjoy — myself and the events that happen to me.
There are different schools and concepts: some say “what’s inside matters,” while social standards tell us “what’s outside matters — attributes like apartment, car, money, success.” But you can have lots of money and hate everything, or sit in a garden, pull weeds, and be fulfilled. The world shows that a synthesis of inner and outer matters. The choice and approach are individual. It’s important to find your authenticity and design your own world. For that you need to understand the algorithm — how to design your world: which emotions you want to experience, which conditions you create “for yourself” so they become your norm. How do I make my life in every sense a work of art I can look at and enjoy — myself and the events that happen to me.
— Who is, for you, a leader of the new era?
In my view, a leader of the new era helps society see and assimilate new valuable experiences, go through them together, and turn them into accepted norms. Such a leader doesn’t just propose ideas but creates a space of trust and collaboration where collective experience makes those ideas verified and meaningful. Because of this, different spheres of life begin to develop and bring people more joy and opportunities.
The key word here is trust: the combination of sensitivity and impartiality toward the world.
My mission is to gather and unite humanity’s experience in the field of safety so that the world becomes a safer place for everyone. People, passing through mistakes sometimes at the cost of their lives, show us how the world works and which of its sides we still don’t know. By turning that experience into shared knowledge, we can make life safer and more conscious.
— How does the role of a leader change in the AI era? How do you work with AI?
For me AI is another form of life — another team member with its own characteristics.
Like any team member, it has traits that you, as a leader, can take into account. For example, it will never speak up by itself unless you ask it. So you have a super-smart but silent team member. It knows more than anyone and at the same time isn’t initiative. How will you integrate it? Where do you need it, in which business process, for what tasks?
For me as a leader, it’s important to know its strengths, how to integrate them, and how my business processes with such a team member and its specificities might change. That’s what we think about.
But it does not answer existential entrepreneurial questions — “where are you going and why,” “what values do you give to the world.” It can pretend to answer, but that remains its simulation. Strategy and the “why” remain the leader’s responsibility.
Like any team member, it has traits that you, as a leader, can take into account. For example, it will never speak up by itself unless you ask it. So you have a super-smart but silent team member. It knows more than anyone and at the same time isn’t initiative. How will you integrate it? Where do you need it, in which business process, for what tasks?
For me as a leader, it’s important to know its strengths, how to integrate them, and how my business processes with such a team member and its specificities might change. That’s what we think about.
But it does not answer existential entrepreneurial questions — “where are you going and why,” “what values do you give to the world.” It can pretend to answer, but that remains its simulation. Strategy and the “why” remain the leader’s responsibility.
— What is the outcome of your approach to change — for companies and people?
Norms can be architecturally recreated — from inside out. Record discomforts, prioritize, solve them sequentially, and make the process visible to all participants — then learned helplessness disappears and co-creation arises.
In companies this is the engineering of cultural norms: a scheme, measurements, and “paths” where it is easy and safe to do the right thing.
In life — the role of the “architect of oneself”: rituals and conditions for desired states, an authentic synthesis of inner and outer. That is how a leader changes the space — from self to world. That is how a work of art called “our life” is created.
In companies this is the engineering of cultural norms: a scheme, measurements, and “paths” where it is easy and safe to do the right thing.
In life — the role of the “architect of oneself”: rituals and conditions for desired states, an authentic synthesis of inner and outer. That is how a leader changes the space — from self to world. That is how a work of art called “our life” is created.